As a non-smoker, I can't imagine starting to, and it's never seemed appealing to me but I'm curious about a few things.

How long have you been smoking?
Have you ever considered quitting?
Have you ever tried to quit?
Do you choose to continue to smoke or is the addiction too strong to quit?

How long: 15 years
Considered Quitting: never
Tried to: No, though I have cut back dramatically since becoming pregnant
Choose or addicted: I choose

As a smoker, it just boggles my mind to hear/read non-smoker commentary on smoking, and Chele, thanks for asking our opinion. You were spot on to use the term taboo, since that's all smoking is, a taboo.

Non-smoker's usually speak of smoking and smokers as if a crime is being committed, and often spit derision usually reserved for pedofiles. They often fail to take action regarding or even consider the abhorrent pollution conditions resultant from our society's reliance on fossil fuels and preponderence towards overusing motor vehicles - most often with only one rider in the vehicle.

To answer your questions here, I used to smoke my first year in college. This was a hold over from occassioanl smoking in high scholl at a party or something. My roomate smoked too. I just got really tired of smelling like sh*t, feeling like sh*t, and having my tastebuds affected... not too mentione the health risks... so I just quit one day. Just like that. Granted I hadn't smoked for years and years so I probably wasn't as addicited as a lot of people, but for me it was completely a will power thing. I just decided to stop, and I did.

I grew up hating smoking because both of my parents smoked. I hid their cigs, put holes in them, bitched about it to no end. Then when I was 22, I moved into a house full of smokers. It started as only a drinking thing, and picked up from there. I still hate everything about it, and am very allergic to second hand smoke, so it makes absolutely no sense that I do it, but as leanne (Hey! That's my name too!) says, there's nothing like that cigarette at the end of the work day. My younger brother is exactly like me when it comes to smoking, and hated it just as bad growing up. As for my older brother, hates it, can't stand to see us do it, but yet he works for Phillip Morris. Go figure.

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Originally posted by leanne:
They often fail to take action regarding or even consider the abhorrent pollution conditions resultant from our society's reliance on fossil fuels and preponderence towards overusing motor vehicles - most often with only one rider in the vehicle.

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No disrespect leanne, but I think that's a bit of a stretch. As a non-smoker that is friends with 90% non-smokers, I can definataly say that's not true in my circle. And I'd dare to say there are plenty of smokers that don't care about air pollution issues and don't carpool. I don't see any correlation between the two at all, but if there's some statistic or study to back up your claim, I'd love to see it.

I view it as a health issue, because my father is a pulmonary specialist. There is really nothing like seeing a cross-section of a completely black lung when you are seven years old to convince you to never smoke. At the same choice, I feel if someone has thoroughly educated themselves on the effects of smoking, and makes a personal choice to do so, then it's none of my business.

Edited to add the following:
The one exception I have to my "it's none of my business" statement has to do with the effects of smoking on infants, who frankly don't have a say in the choice of the individuals around them who smoke. For instance, there are no definite factors that have been clearly and definitively linked to SIDS, however, living in a home where smokers live has been linked to SIDS statistically, and that gives me some pause for thought. This alone compels me to frankly feel that at the very least, some self-education needs to be done by smoking parents for the purpose of limiting a baby's exposure to smoke.

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Originally posted by leanne:
Non-smoker's usually speak of smoking and smokers as if a crime is being committed, and often spit derision usually reserved for pedofiles.

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My boyfriend hates smoking more than *anything,* and I was never addicted, and by the time I met him I would probably have smoked once a month or so in a bar. So not smoking for him is not a huge sacrifice for me.
Also, I hate the smell of smoke so much that I feel like it would be wrong of me to ever have a cigarette these days.

I have been, as long as I can remember, a rabid anti-smoker. As a kid I had severe athsma, and could not be in the same zip code as a lit cigarette without my inhaler.

As I've gotten older I've grown out of the athsma for the most part (thank goodness), but I'm still very anti-smoking. I would only go to restaurants that were anti-smoking, and would lecture all of my friends about what they were doing to their bodies whenever they lit up.

All of this was fine, until I started dating my boyfriend. He smokes... only maybe 4 or 5 cigarettes a day, but still... His smoking was something I knew about when I started dating him, and it almost made me turn him down. I'm glad now that I didn't, but it's become a big issue. He's overweight and not in good health generally, and I'm terrified for his health. He doesn't see it as a big deal because "he's young and won't have to worry about it for a long time". Well, I want to be with him through that long time... I want my kids and grandkids to know their dad/grandpa.

It's had negative effects for me as well. While he doesn't smoke in the house (except on rare occasion if we have people over, then they smoke in the basement), he does ask that we sit in the smoking section at restaurants, which never fails to make me feel sick.

He knows how anti-smoking I am, but beyond an occasional "I really wish you would stop smoking", I try not to pester him about it. I figure he knows it bothers me, and he makes sacrifices for me because of that (no longer smoking in the car, etc) and it's only going to piss him off if I nag about it. I knew going in that this was part of the package with him.

I am going to ask, however, that he quit either before we get married, or before we have kids (more likely). I don't want my children to grow up around smoke in any way. I don't want to be around it when I'm pregnant, even distantly. I will go back to avoiding any restaurant that allows smoking. In the meantime though, I'll just have to hold my breath

I agree that people have a right do whatever they want to their bodies, but when it affects the people around them negatively (second-hand smoke, etc.), it become much more than a personal rights issue, it's a public health issue. I don't want to restrict people, but it's not fair to those people who don't smoke. Sorry, that's all there is to it. I don't subject them to health risks the same way that they subject me to theirs.

But then...
Yes, I drive a car, it's a personal decision, and yes, there are emmisions...so, that's my bad. I am guessing that most avid smokers are not huge environmentalists, though. So, I don't think any of us (smokers vs. non, but car-drivers)) are any holier than the others. We're all guilty.

There's no easy answer, obviously... and I am rambling and not making any sense whatsoever so I will shut up.

I just waffle so much on this stuff...personal rights vs. public health is a tough one.

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Originally posted by giamaria:
I agree that people have a right do whatever they want to their bodies, but when it affects the people around them negatively (second-hand smoke, etc.), it become much more than a personal rights issue, it's a public health issue. I don't want to restrict people, but it's not fair to those people who don't smoke. Sorry, that's all there is to it. I don't subject them to health risks the same way that they subject me to theirs.

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I wonder, do the people who support these types of laws not agree that this affects the health of smokers, too? Does forcing smokers to step outdoors, often at night, and stand on cold, cold pavement constitute civil behavior? I absolutely agree that there should be areas within restaurants/bars that seperate the smokers and the non-smokers. However, forcing them outside is another issue. If, within this law, there was a provision that the restuarant/bar had to install a heat lamp or a protective wind barrier or something else of this nature, I would whole heartedly stand behind this action. But I don't understand why smokers should have to stand in the cold.

I also believe that it should be up to the restaurant/bar to decide if they WANT smoking in their establishment. And if they DO want it, have a waiver that employees must sign in order to work.

Now, on that note, I know that I would NEVER be able to stay up with my friends and patronize said "smoke-free" bars if I did not have the occassional cigarette. I do not smoke enough for me to really be grossly affected by the judgement but it definately is going to cut the amount of time and money that I spend in bars/restaurants.

I have been smoking since I was 15 (9 years) but of those years only two of them were spent as a heavy smoker (and by that I mean a pack every two days or so). Now, at 24, I smoke maybe 3 or 4 cigarettes a week (usually in one sitting) and often goes weeks without touching even a single cigarette. So, no, I don't think I am addicted.

The only time I ever crave cigarettes is on long driving trips when I start to get a little sleepy or a little bored (like when everyone in the car is sleeping). Other than that, its late at night when I am out with friends and need a little pep (I am definately a morning person).

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Originally posted by Brookiebaby:
I wonder, do the people who support these types of laws not agree that this affects the health of smokers, too? Does forcing smokers to step outdoors, often at night, and stand on cold, cold pavement constitute civil behavior?

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But does standing outside adversely affect the health of smokers? No.

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Originally posted by Brookiebaby:
I absolutely agree that there should be areas within restaurants/bars that seperate the smokers and the non-smokers. However, forcing them outside is another issue.

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I think the reasoning there is not only to protect the health of non-smoker patrons, but also the health of the employees. In fact, I think that's the bigger issue. I'm not sure about the idea of signing a waiver resolving the problem. For people whose job opportunities are limited, they may have no other choice but to take a job and sign a waiver even though they don't really want to. There are all kinds of laws on the books to protect the health of employees in various industries. This seems no different to me.

Lots of restaurants here have added patios with heat lamps to attract smokers, and they usually do a brisk business.. but not all restaurants/bars can afford to do so or even have a place to put such a thing that wouldn't violate various bylaws about obstructing the sidewalk. And lots don't really have much of a smoker clientele. I think _requiring_ that restaurants cater to smokers would stir up as much protest as the smoking ban, just from places chafing at the expense.

Although honestly, how does having to stand in the cold for five minutes compare to bringing on an asthma attack or exposing people to known carcinogens? There's a compromise made with the ease and comfort of smokers vs. the ease and comfort of non-smokers, yes, for sure. But smoking has serious, proven health effects which standing outside does not, and as many of the smokers in the thread have said - they started smoking by choice. I think it's reasonable to impose a small inconvenience.

>And if they DO want it, have a waiver that
>employees must sign in order to work.

First, I am nota nag to my still-smoking friends. THose that have quit and joined me on the other side are amazed that I am able to keep quiet about the subject. To me, hearing Leanne's adamance sounds familiar.

BUT, after moving to the other side, it is so much better here. Smoking is an act of denial. You're ddenying th validity of years of research, and you're denying staggering statistics. You make up excuses -- "It's my body; everyone dies of something, I might as well enjoy myself; anything enjoyable is bad for you; but I'm a vegetarian/ not overweight/ an athlete so it counter balances it" -- all of it is denial.

It is ludicrous to hear it -- especially as a nonsmoker. I spent ten years kidding myself, and for what? To spend thousands of dollars on tobacco and cough drops.

As far as smoking when pregnant/ with kids goes, part of the big motivation for me was that I wanted to be quit by the time that happened. It won't be for a while, still, but at least I won't have to worry about harming my children.

In addition to SIDS risks, kids in smoking homes have more ear infections, breathing disorders, and are more likely to need tubes in their ears. Sorry. Not a risk I want to take with my kids, or anyone else's.

As far as laws, Maine has a no-smoking in restaurants law, which I initially hated (cos I smoked), but now embrace and love. Bars are not exempt, and if I go to a bar for coffee with friends (there's a lounge in town that allows smoking) I can smell it in my hair and clothes so badly, that I shower after.

Smokers have no idea how bad they smell, unless they've just been smoking in the rain -- and even funnier is when they add perfume to "mask the smell." SOrry, but the perfume almost magnifies the smell.

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Originally posted by Brookiebaby:

I also believe that it should be up to the restaurant/bar to decide if they WANT smoking in their establishment. And if they DO want it, have a waiver that employees must sign in order to work.

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I don't know - while I appreciate the discomfort that atmospheric smoke causes to non-smokers, smokers are not breaking the law simply by smoking. I take Leanne's point - I don't drive, but God knows I inhale enough of everyone else's petrol fumes with every breath I take.

Leanne, no pregnant woman who is truly concerned for the health of their baby "chooses" to smoke. By saying you "choose," it discredits all of us who have accepted and conquered nicotine addiction. There's a reason there's a FIVE PAGE thread about quitting smoking over at body &soul.

It also shows blatant disrespect to those on the boards who would give their LIMBS to even conceive, just once! and get as far as you have.

There are people here who have planned and eliminated every hint of a drug from their body -- caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, allergy medicines, prescriptions that make EVERY DAY a more livable one -- in order to try to have one chance at having a baby. They have CHOSEN to eliminate those comforts in order to be as healthy as possible. To flaunt and celebrate your "independence" by proclaiming that you choose to smoke to relax is insulting and even hurtful.

As far "it's like cracking a beer after work . . " most women quit drinking before they try to conceive, and if it's a surprise, they immediately cease drinking, based on years of research that proves it is harmful to an unborn baby.

For a person who is so embracing of a "non-medicalized, natural pregnancy" I find it contradictory and hypocritical that you "choose to smoke."

You are not "choosing" to smoke. You are a nicotine addict. I've been one too, and it is not an easy life. It is HARD to quit.

Those who speak loudest, are usually trying to convince themselves, not others.

I hope that your pregnancy and child end up healthy and without harm caused by your "choice." I wish you no ill will, but I do hope that you will be more considerate of others on the boards who would give up ANYTHING, who have given up EVERYTHING, to be in your place -- including cigarettes.

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Originally posted by birdllegs:
Dewgirl--
My boyfriend smokes too. A lot. And it really freaks me out when I think about long term plans. He'd tried to quit (sort-of) so many times...and yeah, I don't want to be a nag...I mean, I knew he smoked when we started dating.
*Has anyone else had experience with this? Will he really quit if we decide to have kids someday?*
The only plus side is that he has a really bad sense of smell, so I never worry too much if I stink like sweat or food, etc. (Not that I always stink...I am a lady and I smell like a flower ).

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good luck! My father promised my mom he would quit when they started to have kids - that was 27 years ago and he STILL smokes. So then he said he'd quit when a pack was more than $3.00 - but again, he STILL smokes. The only good thing was that my father never smoked while holding any of us or my nephew - some of my Uncles have no problem smoking while there is a child in their arms - so sick.

Leanne: You need to quit smoking at least while you're pregnant. You may be independent and able to do what you will with your life, but you now have a responsibility to the life you have chosen to carry. You chose to keep your baby and you have to know I admire you for it, but in doing so you have also accepted an obligation to bring it to term in a safe and healthy manner.

I speak from experience, too, when I agree with Greschya that it's an addiction. I smoked for 7 years. I started socially with one or two when I was hanging out smokers and at my worst I was at a pack a day or slightly more.

I chose to start, but I didn't choose to start smoking a pack a day. When I started, it was two, maybe three, a week. I figured that few wouldn't hurt--I would avoid having the black, crusted, necrotic lungs like the ones in the pictures I used to show grade school kids when I taught a Lung Association anti-smoking course in my early years of high school. Over time I found myself buying my own, and then buying them more frequently.

Every time I tried to quit "cold turkey" over the last two years I smoked, I failed. I get maybe a week and then I'd jones so hard that I'd have been willing to step on children to get to the front of the line at the store to buy a pack. I ended up having to ween myself off over several weeks.

I work with two ex-smokers, each of whom smoked for more than 25 years. My parents were both smokers--my father would light up as soon as he woke up in the morning. He quit before I was born when it started to be known how harmful it was, and my mother quit when I was 3 (she did quit while she was pregnant with my third older sister and I because by then smoking was already thought to be unhealthy for pregnant women). All of them admit that quitting was one of the hardest thing to do. My father was a marine with combat experience, one coworker is ex-navy and has had part of his bowels removed, the other is a black man from a poor town in Mississippi who dragged himself up and went to college. And quitting smoking is counted by each of them as one of the hardest thing they've ever done.

It has been proven in study after study that nicotine is one of the most addictive substances available to man. From personal experience, claiming that cigarettes are not addictive is like claiming the sky is not blue. I officially quit two years ago now, and to this day whenever I'm out on a cold, rainy day and I smell a cigarette I want one so badly I have to force myself away from the corner stores. And yes, I have lapsed twice over those two years.

I believe that to claim that cigarettes may be addictive, but that you are unaffected by them is both arrogant and a denial of reality. I, too, like the ritual of smoking and the effect of nicotine, but some things are just not worth the small benefit they provide.

Like most of the people who have responded, I used to be a smoker myself. I started when I was 14 and didn't quit until I was 20. My parents still smoke, and I can hardly stand to visit their house. I have to leave after about an hour or so, because I am barely able to breathe. I had asthma as a child, and my parents could never figure out why it was so bad. My brother and sister that live at home have all kinds of allergy problems and my sister has to have her tonsils taken out because of her frequent infections and sinus issues. My parents refuse to believe that their smoking has any effect on the two kids.

It is so frustrating for me to go to their house and have my mom be all proud about only smoking 1/2 a pack a day... Or have her complain about money, when she buys 2 cartons of smokes a week... I wear old clothes are dirty clothes over there, because I know I am just going to have to wash them as soon as I get home. Ditto on showering before going over.

My little sister spent the weekend with me just this weekend. Her stuff smelled so badly that I had to febreeze the chair it was sitting on. Even after 2 showers, her hair still reeked... I had to loan her a coat to wear while we were out shopping because her down jacket was so putrid.

I know it just sounds like I am being finicky and complaining. However, THIS is how people feel about you when you are a walking ashtray. As for health concerns, I dont' think there is anything more pathetic than seeing someone with a trach tube smoking through the hole in their neck. Even after emphasima robs them of their throat, they continue to smoke.

Edited for numerous typos.

For what it's worth, taking care of a perfectly healthy baby is difficult. Between the utter and complete helplessness, the occasional sickness, and everything else, it is a really hard job. It is bittersweet and often painful, even with all of the joys that it brings. To take care of a baby whose mental and physical health would be detrimentally affected by the oxygen deprivation caused by smoking...if I were to have to do it, I would find it personally and physically devastating.

File it under "unsolicted advice" and cross-reference it with "pregnant women become public domain".

This is exactly what bothers me about some ex- and non- smokers: they believe that they alone are rational and fully researched and that they are on a holy crusade to alter the lives of those who do smoke.

On the issue of public smoking in general, I certainly wouldn't want to force second-hand smoke on someone else, but just because smoking may be "bad" for one's health, does not mean that those who do smoke are not allowed rights. It's a sticky (stinky!) situation that isn't easy to solve, but there are some public places that have developed solutions that honour both parties with such things as segregation, more and more powerful air exchange machines...

With regards to the hijacking of this thread to post personal attacks against me, while I am under no obligation to defend myself, I am compelled to make the following comments:

a) I do not live in an intellectual vacuum; I have actually done quite a bit of reading of original research papers on the subject of smoking both cigarettes and marijuana and drinking alcohol during pregnancy;

b) I have not made any personal judgements against any individuals ever on this board regardless of whether I felt they were acting in a manner that might be dangerous to their health as this is in no way my business;

c) anyone's inability to conceive is certainly totally unconnected to me and to admonish someone for flaunting their fertility is flat out psychoticly ridiculous;

d) I am boggled that people with little or no medical training would presume to make assumptions about my own and my child's health when both of us are in the competent care of physicians and midwives who are duly pleased with our health and whose medical advice has been solicited for such matters as smoking during pregnancy (My midwife said it's BEST to quit, but a few a day is fine, and further, she is FAR more concerned about my soda pop consumption than anything else.)

d) to hold an impromptu public intervention on this thread, let alone this board, is extremely inappropriate and has forced me to rethink whether I can feel comfortable here any longer amongst a number of regular and reactionary posters.

e) without intimate knowledge of me I find it hard to listen to people who tell me about what I do and do not mean, what I am and am not capable of. I would counsel anyone against insisting that people they do not intimately know are "in denial" - it's just ridiculous to assume that anyone but my family and friends know what I do and do not know about myself.

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I'll step up to the bat on this and open myself up

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What did you think you were opening yourself up for, a round of applause? It seems funny for you to cry foul that people have responded with their feelings on a post you knew would be incendiary.

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Originally posted by Josie Jo:
leanne, you said it yourself, the first response in this thread:

What did you think you were opening yourself up for, a round of applause? It's hardly fair on your part to cry foul that people have responded with their feelings on a post you knew would be incendiary.

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Liv raises hand tentatively...

It does seem that things are getting a bit heated and personal. I'd hate to see anybody leave out of anger. I know everyone's posted out of genuine concern, but maybe we should refrain from addressing specific people's habits and just go with the general topic--who smokes? why? where do smoker's/non-smoker's rights begin and end? Just a thought.

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Originally posted by leanne:

I do not live in an intellectual vacuum; I have actually done quite a bit of reading of original research papers on the subject of smoking both cigarettes and marijuana and drinking alcohol during pregnancy;

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Originally posted by leanne:

anyone's inability to conceive is certainly totally unconnected to me and to admonish someone for flaunting their fertility is flat out psychotically ridiculous;

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Originally posted by Epicurus:
[BYou need to quit smoking at least while you're pregnant. [/B]

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Is this conventional wisdom - that someone should quit smoking cold turkey when they are pregnant?

If anyone has a doctor or midwife who tells them it is acceptable to smoke or drink while pregnant, then they need a new physician or midwife.

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Originally posted by maxpower:
Is this conventional wisdom - that someone should quit smoking cold turkey when they are pregnant?

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It is conventional wisdom that quitting smoking at any point almost instantly begins providing health benefits.

With pregnant drug addicts, there is sometimes the question of whether or not the withdrawal associated with going cold-turkey could harm the child--but nicotine is not heroin or crack.

not to add to the hubbub, but here are a few of the latest studies concerning smoking and pregnancy:

American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology Volume 186 • Number 3 • March 2002 "Stereologic examination of placentas from mothers who smoke during pregnancy" by Lise G. Larsen MD, Helle V. Clausen MD, PhD, Lisbeth Jønsson MD
This study found that women who smoke more than 11 cigarettes a day are considered "heavy smokers" and are more apt to have low birth weight babies who are delivered earlier than their nonsmoking counterparts. Additionally, mothers who choose to smoke during pregnancy are depriving their children of oxygen, creating a state of what is called chronic fetal hypoxia due to a reduced number of capillaries in the placenta.

Smoking is also associated with higher risk for gestational hypertension preeclampsia.
Zhang J - "The puzzling association between smoking and hypertension during pregnancy." Am J Obstet Gynecol - 01-Dec-1999; 181(6): 1407-13

Here's an interesting study. A major epidemiological review found some link between prenatal exposure to nicotine and "dysregulation in neurodevelopment and can indicate higher risk for psychiatric problems, including substance abuse."
Ernst M - "Behavioral and neural consequences of prenatal exposure to nicotine." J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry - 01-Jun-2001; 40(6): 630-41

In my basic search of the medical texts using MD consult, I also came up with articles linking pregnancy and smoking to higher risks for clots, pulmonary emobolism, deep vein thrombosis, retinal malformations, and the old standbys- preterm birth and low birth weight. While the studies are all definitive in their classification of high risk being greater than 11 cigarettes per day, each article mentions that any smoking will increase risk compared to non-smokers.

I think it's important to recognize the individual intelligence and ability to make an informed decision and avoid pointing fingers at anyone in the community. We each make choices in our lives that others may not approve of. Let us try to support the individuals in the decisions they do make and point each other to a healthier path. I think the point has been made in the discussion of pregnancy and smoking.

I don't know that the reaction you got to your post was about pregnant women becoming public domain or former smokers on a tirade (arguably, both are very valid issues) Leanne, but rather a shocked response to a shocking post. With all due respect, I can't imagine expecting anything different.

More on topic: I'm a social smoker, some would say the worst kind. Why smoke if you aren't fully addicted, right? Good question. As someone who smokes rarely, I know very well the effect it has on my body (all the more reason to stop) as the morning after a smoking night (or just a night hanging out with a lot of smokers) I feel absolutely awful, like I'm chock full of chemicals. Oh wait, I am!

But suffice it to say that I think BG said it best: because Leanne is someone we longtime digsters feel we've gotten to know/care about through the boards, it's hard not to let her know if we feel concerned. But she's heard the concerns, and in the end, there's no reason she needs to conform to anyone else's ideas: her personal choices shouldn't be up for debate. I'm not sure there's much more to discuss in regard to Leanne's smoking specifically: if we could get back to the general smoking discussion at hand, that would be good.

With all due respect, I feel it necessary to disagree strongly and then I will abide by your request. Afterwards, I am happy to engage in an e-mail debate with anyone who wishes one.

Personal choices are what this thread is all about, and the initial response which sparked this issue made that quite clear. To say, then, that personal choices should not be examined--whether by gentle light or harsh--seems to undermine the point of the discussion.

If someone came on to our boards and said, "I have a right to relax, and poisoning my child in small doses really helps me unwind after a tough day", we would be all over them like white on rice. We would be justified, because their post would have been alarming and it would be clear that they were putting the life of their child in jeopardy. There would be no way to put it impersonally, there would be no justification for a conciliatory attitude: educated, sane people do not feed poison to children no matter what their views on individual rights.

One of our members unapologetically made a similar statement. At the end of the day, she unwinds with a cigarette. It is her right to break the "taboo", she enjoys the ritual, and she has NEVER considered quitting although she has cut back since conceiving her child and deciding to carry it to term. All this, despite being told by a midwife that it is best to quit. (I am guessing the physician consulted made a stronger recommendation.)

All medical evidence shows that smoking while pregnant is harmful to the child. It is poison to the fetus. Why, then, should we not respond as strongly as we would to the hypothetical digster?

In fact, I would argue that we had a duty to respond even more strongly given that we "know" and care for the person in question as a member of our community. If none of us had shown Greschya's bravery in opening the topic, the real shame would have been on us for allowing one of our own to make such an egregious, dangerous error without attempting to help her see the right thing to do.

The person in question is a strong, independent woman who is dealing with a situation that generates a tremendous amount of financial, psychological, familial, and physical stress. I admire her more than I can express for choosing to carry this child, and I know that I could never understand the loss of self that this entails--the personal sacrifice involved when a woman devotes herself to growing and caring for a new life. Be that as it may, I could not be silent--and make no apologies for saying so--when I believe that in a misguided attempt to assert her independence and right to choose she chose to poison her child.

Anyone who would like to take issue with me is welcome to do so. My e-mail address is Shamejedi at hotmail dot com, and I promise a response.

So, really, back on topic. And for the record, don't smoke, have never smoked (though my dad did when I was a kid), have never wanted to smoke, don't particularly like the fact that I wheeze when others around me smoke, or that the smell of it in my hair after a night out makes me feel downright nauseous. I don't really have a problem with people choosing to smoke -- I do plenty of things to myself that probably aren't the healthiest things to be electing to do -- but I just don't like the smoke being forced on me, which is exactly what happens when I'm at clubs and bars. I think segregation is fine in theory, but it never seems to work very well ... smoke has a nasty habit of not confining itself to just that little area over the smoking section.

I started smoking when I was 14. I used to pay my Dad out when I was younger. I HATED it. Even when I was a baby I had bad breathing, always used to get chesty and bronchy. I can probably blame my Dad for this.

Then I was stealing his cigarettes.
It started with a pack a week and quickly moved to a pack a day.
He blamed himself for my starting smoking.

My excuse for not giving up 'I love it, I've got an addictive personality'.

I smoked for 6 years solidly. Over that time I always got bad coughs that would stick around for months. I blamed it on the city where I had moved to, and got inhalers prescribed from the doctor. They told me to give up smoking, but I never did. I just didn't want to. All my friends smoked and it was a part of who I was. I'm Becs, I'm 21, I'm a smoker". I told people, and myself, that I would be a smoker for the rest of my life. I believed it that much.

I tried to quit twice since I started. The first time I gave up for 3 days. The second time was for about 6 days when I was really sick.

But then something started changing in my thinking. When drinking with my friends I'd look around at the 8 people ALL smoking at once. YUCK!!!

Then one morning after a hard weekend, I just sto