Denial was the biggest thing for me. I'm very healthy and never get a cold, I didn't have a smoker's cough. I could rationalise that smoking was not affecting my health (unlike my asthmatic smoking bf).

Quitting is the besting thing I have done in my life. It has also had knock on effects.
1) Making a decision and sticking to it has made me feel stronger about other things in my life that I just accepted.
2) I realised that it did affect my health. I have always had a nervous stomach and would rech in the mornings (every morning) I thought it was hormonal. That doesn't happen now.
3) Since both my bf & I stopped we feel sexier and I can smell his natural musk which really sets the horn going.
4) My hair doesn't get greasy and I get nice looks in the lift when I have just washed it. Before people would shift away from me.

If I had fallen pregnant while still a smoker I can honestly say that I probably would still smoke. I would try to cut down but realistically they would have won. A few of my friends have not been able to stop while pregnant.

As posted on page 19 of the dust settles thread, Leanne herself said "Mine is with the smoking ( I know! I've heard it all before!). Everyone admonishes me about it and I'm too stupid to keep my damn mouth shut! I excercise, I eat well, I don't drink anything, I ingest extremely few over-the-counter meds, I figure my 4/5 ultra light cigs are my treat - that and the pepsi, my two addictions."

I know of no smoker (and I know a lot of smokers! Maine has one of the highest smoking rates in the country) that has "never considered quitting."

Again, Leanne is no exception. On page 4 of the Dust Settles thread, she wrote " . . . he isn't the fellow who has to carry the baby and cut down/out cigarettes and that all-purpose friend marijuana, and worry about nutrition and getting enough sleep and, and, and..."

Someone like Brookiebaby, or Janest, who is able to have a smoke one night at a bar and gor for weeks or months without a second thought would fall under the "choose" category. I ENJOYED smoking, I did -- but I didn't enjoy being an addict, and I didn't enjoy the process of quitting. For that reason, I don't try to even have "Just one puff . . ." I'm sure Epi and other former smokers know what I mean.

(I do feel that this is relevant to the original topic -- asking whether smokers choose or have considered quitting -- and I will let the sleeping dog lie, for now. However, I did want to defend my original statement with supporting quotes.)

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Originally posted by yeefan:
I think segregation is fine in theory, but it never seems to work very well ... smoke has a nasty habit of not confining itself to just that little area over the smoking section.

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Totally agree. And as I mentioned earlier, there are quite a few restaurants that have a smoking section near the entrance so you have to walk through it (or wait in it). Also, there is still the issue of employees being forced to work in a smoking section... something I was always loathe to do when I waited tables, but had to if I wanted the job (and I needed the job). But it is only restaurants that even offer a choice. Other places like concert venues or bowling alleys (which have already been mentioned), you either don't go or you deal with the second-hand smoke and all it's annoyances and risks. To me this seems like a bigger inconvenience to non-smokers with "rights" to go to those places than to smokers with "rights" to go to those places. If it were non-smoking, the smokers could still go without adverse effects. I don't think there needs to be any kind of smoking prohibition and making it illegal entirely (hell, I'm for legalization of pot, so there)... but it just seems reasonable from a public health perspective to limit smoking in enclosed public spaces.

The reasons I was finally able to quit were pretty simple. One was that I was starting to sound like my (ex)husband and he's been smoking for like 30 years. Very scary that. And, good friends of mine were planning to not comply with the new recycling ordinance and challenged me: my convictions vs. my addiction. They still recycle and I still don't smoke.

I do think smoking is an addiction for most people. My ex couldn't even must a good try in exchange for getting a boat he really really wanted. We broke up and he got his boat anyway but it really drove it home for me that this man will always smoke. And this after watching his father die from lung cancer. After his dying father begged him to quit. Now he lives with a smoker and I know he will never quit and it makes me sad. The doctor told him 2 years ago if he didn't he'd be on oxygen within 5 years. Now he just doesn't go to the doctor.

WARNING: GROSS

Ever since quitting smoking (almost 3 years ago)I have had a huge phlegm problem. Every morning, I hack up a solid yellowish piece of phlegm-- usually in the shower or when I am brushing my teeth. EVERY MORNING> it's so gross. I was talking to my The' this morning, and he said maybe it's because my lungs are still breaking shit up from being in a smoking environment for 20 years of my life.

Anyway. My story:

How long: From 16 to 20, and again from 22 to now (23). I currently smoke.
Considered quitting: Almost every day.
Tried to quit: Not lately. I quit for 2 years but started up again after boyfriend and I broke up (March 2002).
Choice or addiction: Both. I like the action of smoking, but at the same time when I get off work, I NEED a cigarette. (I do not take smoke breaks during the day at my full-time job, unless I am having a no good very bad day.)

I would like to quit smoking now; however, I do not have the willpower. I think that is where the addiction part comes in - but I am getting closer to the point where I believe that I will be ready again. It is hard though because my roommate smokes, so we kind of feed off each other. Maybe if I can convince Z to quit also we could help each other out. Or else we would just claw each other's eyes out.

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Originally posted by yam:
actually maybe you should just try not to think about the phlegm.

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Originally posted by yam:
Ewwww, actually maybe you should just try not to think about the phlegm.

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I work for anti-tobacco advertising and information dissimination on tobacco for the government. I actually work on/or assit in doing the studies that give you guys the facts you are throwing around on here. I have smoked socially off and on since my last year of college. I stopped for almost a year and then I got married and my husband smokes and well. . .

At this point I smoke about twice a month. My husband and I are slowly weaning ourselves off of ciggarettes. This new years resolution is to stop smoking for good.

About the Leanne/smoking while pregnant situation. . .sadly I am not surprised. There are a million Leanne's out there. We get calls about once a twice a month from woman trying to find how many cigarettes they can smoke a day without "harming their baby/fetus toooooo badly." It is sad really. These women are looking for any loophole to squeez thier addiction through. They always breath this HUGE sigh of releaf when we tell them that these studies are based on smoking 10 cigarettes a day or less. . .they figure 8-9 a day and I am good and the baby is ok. Nope. But it is their choice. . .just very unfourtunate for their baby. Anyway it isn't my business what Leanne does or doesn't do I am just saying she is the tip of the iceberg.

About 2ndhand smoke. Why do smokers or people who support smokers always justify smoking with the you drive a car/use hairspray/buy paper/ruin the environment too argument? One bad thing does not make the other bad thing ok to do. Take some responsibilty here folks. Smoking is bad for your health and for others. Driving cars with fossil fuel is bad for the environment, poaching endangered animals is bad for the environment, smoking is bad for people and others. . .TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT!! It took 50+ years for people to realize smoking was harmful to your health and to others around you. It took 50+ years for laws to be created to protect the innocent from the harmful affects of smoking. It will probablly take about 70+ years for us to find alternative means of transportation or at least less harmful fuels. Until then does that mean smokers should be able to smoke and harm others??? NO! Take responsiblity for your own patch of air, your friends and family, and the human race in general and stop smoking or at least take it outside so it doesn't hurt other people. Why does everything have to become a question of someones rights. . .why can't it just be the NICE THING TO DO! Jesus. Say to yourself "first I am going to try and stop smoking then I am going to try to save the environment." Now I know this makes people feel uncomfortable because it sounds like you are giving your rights away or even worse letting some santimonius non-smoker/ex-smokers lecture you about a deeply personal addiction. but hey it is all for the greater good!! so focus on that and not the annoyance of non-smokers/ex-smokers. just try to not harm other people with your smoke.

Meanwhile I am quitting smoking. It just is a bad harmful health hurtful to the earth smelly pukey habbit. good luck fellow addicts.

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Originally posted by dewdk:
Why do smokers or people who support smokers always justify smoking with the you drive a car/use hairspray/buy paper/ruin the environment too argument?

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Then slowly began smoking all the time -- out with friends, after class, you name it. After my first year it tapered off, but if I was at a bar or studying, I was smoking (yeah, healthy).

Then I graduated and seriously, because I'm not around smokers anymore, I just don't want to smoke. Obviously I just sort of tapered off without realizing that I was doing it. The only time I ever want to is when a good friend lights up (and I have only a few friends left who do). In the last 6 months I've probably smoked 1 cigarette every 2 weeks.

Why do you smoke in the car but crack the windows?

My boyfriend smokes, and all his friends smoke, so when we're all hanging out at his place playing cards or whatever, it just about kills me by the end of the night. 4-5 people all smoking in the house ...one of them is smoking at all times. It literally makes me sick to my stomach by the end of the night. I'll open windows, turn on the fans, etc...but it's impossible to keep the smoke away. I think it's fine to smoke in your own home and all, but I'm loving the new laws...and I've been on both sides of the fence.

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Originally posted by lesliele:
Ever since quitting smoking (almost 3 years ago)I have had a huge phlegm problem. Every morning, I hack up a solid yellowish piece of phlegm-- usually in the shower or when I am brushing my teeth. EVERY MORNING> it's so gross. I was talking to my The' this morning, and he said maybe it's because my lungs are still breaking shit up from being in a smoking environment for 20 years of my life.

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this is waaay after the fact, but lesliele--i thought you might find this interesting...
i learned in one of my physiology classes that smoking can, over time, change the cells of your esophogus. in their original and normal state, those cells are ciliated--they have tiny hair-like structures that beat in an upward motion, aiding in the movement of phlegm. after prolonged smoking (and i don't have a specific # of days/months/years), these cells are damaged by the components of the smoke and begin to change shape and lose their cilliation (which makes phlegm movement more difficult). tah dah! your phlegm problem.

wasn't that fun, boys and girls?

and just to formally join the party: i don't smoke, and never have. my parents smoked when my sibling and i were younger (not while pregnant), and quit using one of the patch systems about 6 or 7 years ago now. they finally realized that we really meant it when we said it made us nauseous...(to their defense, they did limit smoking to outdoors-only for the 4 or 5 years before they quit). at any rate--i have friends who smoke, but they all go outside to do so unless in a bar/smoking specifically allowed setting. i don't judge them for smoking, but i do think it's smelly and unquestionable harmful to your health.

quote:

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Originally posted by geckogurl:
i learned in one of my physiology classes that smoking can, over time, change the cells of your esophogus. in their original and normal state, those cells are ciliated--they have tiny hair-like structures that beat in an upward motion, aiding in the movement of phlegm. after prolonged smoking (and i don't have a specific # of days/months/years), these cells are damaged by the components of the smoke and begin to change shape and lose their cilliation (which makes phlegm movement more difficult). tah dah! your phlegm problem.

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Now, though, holy shit, if I spend a night at the HoJo's lounge drinking coffee with my dear and addicted friends, I feel it the next day, just from the secondhand. One nioght, I was so embarrassed of the smell on me from just BEING in the bar that I left the grocery store I was in without finishing my shopping.

My friend stopped for 7 years and went back on them after living with 2 smokers for a year. He was around smokers all the time and finally caved in. I guess he forgot why he stopped in the first place and thought he was missing out on something. He has gout which makes it all the more sad.

I remember having to stand in the freezing cold to have a fag in the winter. The inconvenience of it is one of the things
which motivated me to stop.

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Originally posted by maxpower:

So why does the hacking start only after you give up smoking?

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Because while you are smoking the cilia are no longer bringing plegm forward at all--it's collecting in your lungs and you only hack it up in the morning because you've been prone for several ours when asleep and it's finally reached a point where the muscle contractions and airflow of coughing can help you expel it.

If anything, being around such heavy smokers keeps me from smoking even more -- it's a bit of a mental ego-trip to think "haha! I am stronger than you." I have NEVER EVER said it out loud, and I wouldn't, but I am not at all at risk for starting smoking again.

Last summer, I went out with a dozen friends for a friends birthday -- i was the ONLY nonsmoker, and it sucked. THe pictures though, made two of those smokers quit for good. Another quit for a month and started back.

ANd, it's been frigid here in Maine (20 or more below zero fahrenheit for most of last week) -- An hour or so a week in a smokers environment isn't as bad as I used to be (a 24/7 smokers environment!) and in nicer weather, we usually socialize outdoors, or, they smoke outdoors instead of going to the lounge.

Anyway. I've never smokes.

Came in here to say that here in Ireland, where going to the pub is just what we do in the evening, from next January, it will be illegal to smoke in any pub or restaurant.

There was an interesting article in the weekend paper so I thought I'd scan a few of the paragraphs from it and post them.

I don't agree with the whole article - it is a subjective feature article (as is most media) and the author does lack referencing his sources... but anyway. Basically, I've copied the factual bits and left out his own experiences. If anyone wants a copy of this article, email me and I'll send you it. Sorry if some of it is crap - grrr OCR

Otherwise, if you want me to expand on any of the points, then go ahead.

"A raft of new studies proves you don't have to be mad to smoke, but it jolly well helps. Half of smokers are depressive, 16 per cent anxious, 14 per cent angry and irritable. Clinically depressed people are four times more likely to smoke than the mentally healthy; 90 per cent of schizophrenics and alcoholics smoke...
Overall, 80 per cent of smokers do it primarily to self-medicate emotional problems. They are using cigarettes as a form of antidepressant or tranquilliser, a drug of solace for negative emotions.
The definitive study proving this was published last year. David Gilbert, an American psychologist, measured the neuroticism and depressiveness of 96 women smokers for five weeks...
Gilbert has demonstrated that responses to thwarted love and nicotine withdrawal are almost identical. In both cases, there is likely to be depression, irritability, restlessness, insomnia, lack of concentration and overeating, in both cases, too, smoking helps to ameliorate the symptoms....
Greater stress, along with lack of education, largely explains why the poorest are two and a half times more likely to smoke than the richest....
They were likely to be more neurotic than the educated, but they were also more likely to perceive themselves as impotent victims of external forces....
So what is it that makes smoking so rewarding? As an anti-depressant, nicotine produces a brief, euphoric sensation by boosting dopamine, yet it also seems to affect serotonin levels (serotonin is the brain chemical that is low in depressives and is boosted by antidepressants such as Prozac). Nicotine also affects levels, of cortisol, a hormone that plays a vital role in the response to danger. Neurotic people may have high levels. Alternatively, if you have low levels they may need boosting to make you more reactive and alert.
Nicotine seems to affect cortisol levels differentially - if they are too low, it raises them; if too high, it drops them. This probably explains why smoking is more common in people who are antisocial, rebellious, impulsive and risk-taking.
Interestingly, being antisocial when young is the single strongest predictor of later smoking....
But, above all, smoking is a self-chosen treatment for the frustration, anger and despair that come from early infantile deprivation....
That cortisol levels are damaged by poor parental care has also been proven. If your mother was depressed when you were very small, you are liable to have abnormally high or low levels later...
However you [give up]- taking knitting, joining a political party - look on your smoking as a symptom and treat the cause."
- Psychologist Oliver James

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Originally posted by BionicGirl:
No disrespect leanne, but I think that's a bit of a stretch. As a non-smoker that is friends with 90% non-smokers, I can definataly say that's not true in my circle. And I'd dare to say there are plenty of smokers that don't care about air pollution issues and don't carpool. I don't see any correlation between the two at all, but if there's some statistic or study to back up your claim, I'd love to see it.

[This message has been edited by BionicGirl (edited 12-13-2002).]

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I am so tired of hearing other people complain all of the time about people who smoke cigarettes.Then smokers get treated like they have a diease.My daughter In law acts like we have some kind of diease because we are smokers.I put her in her place when she starts on me about smoking and how bad it is for us and our lungs.I asked her what is so different about me smoking cigarettes and her smoking pot? She was lost for words.Thought so....
Everyone has a habit of some kind and mine is smoking.I don't get dog drunk for I don't drink.I could tell them I don't like to be around drunks who make fools out of theirselves.They smell bad and they point fingers at us smokers.
Everyone needs to wake up and read up and become smart to what is going on in the real world today.
First let me say that I know cigarette smoking may not be good for you but neither is overeating or under eating or drinking to much booze or to many drugs and the list goes on and on.
Someone asked for prove of something that it isn't just the cigarettes.So here it is and I do hope some people will wise up to what is going on. It is always easy for the governments to point fingers and have someone else pay for the mess up's.
The cigarettes companies are the fall guys and they must pay for everything.
So here it is and I hope everyone takes the time to read this.
http://www.newfrontier.com/asheville/chemtrails.htm

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Originally posted by yeefan:
Epi, I just sent you an email explaining why I stand by my original post, in which I attempted to get the conversation back on what I perceived as the original track. It's been my policy on the boards that I don't condone preaching and I don't encourage personal attacks -- and I'm trying to be fair here and apply that rule REGARDLESS of what my own personal opinions are. If we want to talk about research or personal experiences regarding the effects of smoking on pregnancy, or alcohol on pregnancy, or whatever on pregnancy, let's do it. If we want to talk about why each of us chooses to smoke, or not smoke, or stop smoking, let's do that too. But there's simply nothing good that can come out of continuing to berate a member of the community for how they've chosen to live their life -- when they're resolute in their defense of their choices and not interested in hearing advice -- even if they do happen to be pregnant.

So, really, back on topic. And for the record, don't smoke, have never smoked (though my dad did when I was a kid), have never wanted to smoke, don't particularly like the fact that I wheeze when others around me smoke, or that the smell of it in my hair after a night out makes me feel downright nauseous. I don't really have a problem with people choosing to smoke -- I do plenty of things to myself that probably aren't the healthiest things to be electing to do -- but I just don't like the smoke being forced on me, which is exactly what happens when I'm at clubs and bars. I think segregation is fine in theory, but it never seems to work very well ... smoke has a nasty habit of not confining itself to just that little area over the smoking section.

[This message has been edited by yeefan (edited 12-16-2002).]

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