As for the big weddings thing, I'd just like to say (again) that I really, really feel strongly that big weddings are not inherently worse than small weddings, or vice versa, that it's completely a matter of what's right for a given couple. I have to confess that I tend to find it just as annoying when people deride all big weddings as a complete waste of money as when I see wedding magazines promoting extravagant weddings as the only options ... as with most things, I just don't think there's one perfect solution that fits all people. I had a great big formal and yes, very expensive wedding, full of family and friends who all seemed very very happy to be sharing in our day, and for Ginsu and I, and our many loved ones too, it was an all-around perfect way to celebrate the beginning of our married life together.

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I would feel really uncomfortable at anything less, I think... to me (and please don't yell, this is just my opinion) an informal wedding would give the impression to me that the couple didn't consider the marriage to be that big a deal.

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Not putting your opinion down, just giving an alternate view-

That said, C. and I are having a large informal FUN wedding next April, and I'm extremely excited.

Edited to finish my thought.

Given that one has the requisite funds, you can easily do the easy thing and merely plug in all the socially correct things that modern weddings are "supposed" to have.

Like a reception. Why a reception? Why not just a ceremony? Or wedding favours. Why do you "HAVE" to give wedding favours? Or white dress, or formal attire or whatever, you pick any element of a modern wedding, outside of standing there holding hands and pledging your love and devotion to each other, and it could easily go out the window.

So, I think it takes a whole lot of trouble and money to ensure that you've done just what everyone else has done.

What I find with less formal ceremonies is that the couple has had to think long and hard about what is important to them, to define what a marriage ceremony is. It isn't a big pouffy white dress, it is an exchange of vows.

The level of true community participation often rises with informal weddings (potlucks, granny makes the cake or some secret family recipe, the guests have to hike out to a beach or park and interact with the ceremony by standing in a big circle around the bride and groom - just a couple of examples of theoretical informal ceremony elements).

Anyone can pick a church to walk down the aisle, and a hall and a caterer and a dj service or band. And almost everybody does this. This cheapens the ceremony for me. Because I want my own future wedding as unique as my relationship and I would hope that most couples would.

But, informal and smaller ceremonies are steeped in the kind of initmacy that strong communities of family and friends are best at.

The bride gets to spend time with everyone, talking and sharing her day with her community and not just catching folks at the reception line. Couples and their family's aren't paying $50/$70/$100 a plate to food and booze near strangers or family members who aren't part of their regular lives. Couples are executing plans that they dreamed into existence in creativity instead of fretting over whether they are excelling at each list item in the The Knot's Wedding To Do List.

Do I explain myself well enough?

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Originally posted by yeefan:
it was an all-around perfect way to celebrate the beginning of our married life together.

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1. A formal wedding doesn't have to be expensive. You can have a formal ceremony, be dressed formally, and not have all of the ritzy glitzy stuff that makes it expensive.

I do accede that some big formal weddings can be fun and magical and of course, some small weddings are horrid, too.

I did note that you were creative with things like your invitations (making beautiful ones yourself) and worked hard to incorporate some of your ancestral traditions into the proceedings. I admire this sort of thing and this kind of involvement sets one apart to a great degree from those who "buy" a wedding (as I conceive it in my head).

But, as much as I don't wish to offend anyone who has or is planning or believes in expensive formal weddings (tho I don't mind being a bit of a thorn!), I still can't get over the conspicuous material consumption that the traditional modern wedding is.

I mean, Yeefan (sorry to pick on you, but here you are ), I'm guestimating that what you and your families paid for your wedding would have paid for a future baby ginsu or yeefan to attend college. Put in a decently managed fund, that money would have bought you a beautiful summer cottage in 10 years, or a brand new car, or been a very comfortable nest egg against bad times or would have housed 5 beaten women and their children long enough for them to get back on their feet or fed every homeless child in Phoenix for a week....

I guess it is a matter of perspective. And, if the money is there for the wedding, the happiness of bride, groom, family and friends are worth any amount of money.

I don't think people should ever spend more than they can afford on anything -- weddings, house, car, whatever -- and most especially when they're only doing it because they think they're supposed to. (And by afford, I don't mean just that one has the cash available, or can get a loan, but that spending that money doesn't take away from something more important -- e.g., we didn't blow our savings or my parents savings on our wedding, because I do think that would be very unwise spending). If I (or more to the point, my parents, because they were generous enough to pay for the wedding) had been living under different financial conditions, I obviously would have figured out a way to do the wedding a lot cheaper. But the fact is, my parents wanted to give me this wedding, and could afford it, and Ginsu and I both like beautiful things, and we both have very large extended families and good friends that mean a lot to us and that we wanted to have there, and all these things factored together to mean that the wedding was expensive. But we spent a lot of time ensuring that the wedding was very specific to who we are as a couple, and the ceremony itself was very simple, very meaningful, and very much representative us. And people are still telling us how much of a blast they had at our wedding, and that it was one of the most fun ones they've been to. Bottomline is that it's not how much you spend -- grand sum or very little at all -- but what you do with it.

I just don't think it's fair to say all expensive weddings are a waste of money. After all, everybody has different limits on what they think is outrageously expensive -- for some it might be $5000 for the wedding, for others $50,000. It's all relative, right?

The massive amounts of money spent on a wedding is a topic close to my heart, as we're spending my father's money to plan our wedding right now.

My father himself has said I should take the money and buy a house, which has given me heart palpatations. I'm a pretty frugal girl, and did not think that if I had a wedding, it would be "big." But this is New York, and you really can't do things cheaply here.

So we're going all out. We're spending money on things that everyone will enjoy, meaning great location, terrific food and fantastic music. Everything else is kinda secondary.

Plus, we live really far from our families (Tony's from England and mine is scattered throughout the US) so we consider this a celebration for everyone... not just ourselves. It's a bit of mental justification for such obvious expenditures.

My mother doesn't let me forget it either, constantly remarking on her own wedding in the local VFW where her father's co-workers bartended and they ate cold cuts and potato salad made by my grandmother's church group. Now, I don't discount that -- it sounds lovely. She was also 22 and trying to keep my father out of the war. Circumstances change. But at the same time, she wants nothing short of the best for this celebration of her only daughter.

I agree with yeefan. We only plan on doing this once, and this is the "once" we want. And it's worth it to give our families an venue to come together and celebrate.

**phew**

I remember the weddings of my cousin and my one aunt, in particular, as examples of large formal and very expensive weddings that I was invited to that were examples of what makes me uneasy about big weddings in general.

And, I too have gotten advice from a number of now married friends that eloping/super small private ceremonies were the way to go. After going through the planning stages of a more formal sort of event, I heartily agree.

And, even if I were to win a million bucks tomorrow and could throw a lavish todo that reflected Sean and my personalities, I couldn't do it.

One part of the expense that I haven't even mentioned yet is what the wedding industry charges for anything that has to do with ceremonies and receptions. That is a big factor in why modern weddings cost so much and that end of it sickens me, too.

(When looking at a reception site, there was a big difference in prices between renting the hall for the purpose of a wedding and renting it to, say, throw a dance. If you just say the "W" word, the price starts to creep up.)

It's not my intention to take away from the specialness of what you (again as an example because I know a little about your wedding and you happen to be here for this convo) and Ginsu did on your wedding day, but I know that, in an alternate universe, had you gathered your community in the forest, exchanged vows, danced about a fire and drank bottled beer, your family and friends would have still gone home knowing they had a blast and feeling that the day was infused with love and light and magic, as it was in this universe!

But, that's neither here nor there - you made the choices you made and they were good choices and it was an flawless, wonderful day!

Edited to apologise for being like a pitbull with a doll's leg in its mouth, I'm being a bit compulsive. I honestly don't mean any judgement on anyone's personal choices.

That said, I think I will probably opt for something in the middle. I like the idea of having a formal wedding ceremony and reception, but I want to cut costs by doing things myself. I like the idea of pulling off a wedding that seems like it was expensive, but was really reasonable and reflects who my boyfriend I are as a couple. I'm a bargin shopper at heart!

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Originally posted by Dewgirl:
to me (and please don't yell, this is just my opinion) an informal wedding would give the impression to me that the couple didn't consider the marriage to be that big a deal.

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Can we not blow this off? I'm sorry, but that did kind of hurt my feelings, even if I'm trying not to take it personally (I know it wasn't directed at me but it was critical of the kind of wedding I had, which was pretty important to me). I just feel blown off twice in one day. Some acknowledgement would be nice (like, from the horse's mouth), and the large wedding criticism kind of steered the conversation away from it. Informal weddings deserve respect too.

I like pretty things too!

What is a pretty thing? Would my hand knit and beaded wedding outfit not be a pretty thing because it will only cost me about $25 to make, it wouldn't be bought at a big expensive store or created by a known designer?

I'll re-iterate what I said earlier: a wedding comes down to one thing: looking in each other's eyes and declaring your love and devotion to each other.

Anything else is just trimmings. Me, I'm a simple girl with simple desires and simple style. My diamonds won't cost a fortune (if I bother with them at all), nor will my attire, nor will our ceremony, but each of these will be special to the only two people to who it matters: me and Sean.

And BG, I was pretty much under the impression that Dewgirl's feelings that bigger is better with regards to weddings was a minority opinion -- most of the big wedding defenders (like moi) weren't defending big weddings per se, just pointing out that anyone (and I know you weren't saying this ) who says that small informal weddings are inherently more true to what's really important at weddings is in fact making a pointed blanket criticism of anyone who thinks differently.

I know it's impossible to avoid offense completely when discussing matters of opinion, but in general, I try to word my opinions in such a way that it's clear that I'm not saying my views are the only acceptable ones, or that what's right for me is what's right for everyone. (Apologies leanne if you were offended by the pretty things remarks -- I certainly know that pretty doesn't always equal expensive, but in terms of the sort of things I wanted for my wedding, and my own personal style, it frequently did. Locations that can accommodate 200+ people are difficult to find; attractive ones even more difficult, and when we did find them, it was generally reflected in the price. Finding someone to feed 200+ people food that looks good and tastes good was also something that I personally wasn't able to find cheaply. And I don't have the sewing ability to create a wedding dress that suits and fits me perfectly, so for me personally, I did need to spend the money to get the pretty dress. If I were more talented, and had more time to hunt around, I probably could have had things that looked pretty to me that didn't cost as much, definitely).

Hope no one's taken too much umbrage at any of my remarks -- I really do believe that small weddings, big weddings, inexpensive weddings,lavish weddings, can all make for perfectly wonderful affairs. Why do we feel the need to take sides on which are better, when it seems clear that it's only a matter of which are better for the specific couple in question?

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Originally posted by yeefan:
And BG, I was pretty much under the impression that Dewgirl's feelings that bigger is better with regards to weddings was a minority opinion -- most of the big wedding defenders (like moi) weren't defending big weddings per se

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I did go back and reread Dewgirl's second to last post, where she talks about the specifics of planning her wedding, and I do think she was just trying to clarify her earlier post by showing that for her personally, she can't imagine not having a big wedding -- not necessarily saying that she thinks smaller, less formal weddings for other people can't be as beautiful/meaningful for the couple involved.

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Originally posted by yeefan:
Hugs, BG -- I'm so sorry to hear the boards have contributed to your rough day...But anyway, I'm feeling sad and a little distressed now because I too, like you all so much, and hate to see everyone so unhappy over comments that I'm positive weren't meant to attack anyone personally ...

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Thanks yee-fan. I'm feeling much better after a good cry (not realted to the boards, fear not), some good hubbie huggin', a really nice e-mail from greshya (thanks!), and just some cooling off time. Anyhow, I'm done with it and think I am able to not let singular opinions get me down at this point. I hope you're feeling better, and I'm sorry to contribute to the yee-fan blues.

And I'm sorry for helping to hijack a thread once again. Let's get on with everyone planning their wonderful weddings.

When I think "big wedding", the first thing that comes to my mind is a huge tacky thing, planned exclusively by the bride, where guests are expected to "pay for their place" by buying expensive gifts or, better, giving money, because it was very expensive to invite them after all. (I didn't invent this... one of my coworkers who was married last year gave that as a guideline to another coworker who was about to attend a wedding)

The dress is some cheaply done itchy thing with tons of lace and frills, which was nevertheless insanely expensive. The food is kinda cold because there's too much people to serve at the same time. A few uncles are already drunk by the time dancing starts because they wanted to take advantage of the open bar (after all, they gave a pretty big gift to be at that wedding, it better be worth it). The bride keeps worrying whether she's doing the right thing while the groom keeps worrying about the incredible bill they'll have to pay... I let you imagine the rest.

Given my stereotype of the big formal wedding (based on actual weddings, unfortunately), it's easy to understand why I wouldn't want one. That doesn't mean that I think that a big wedding can't be romantic and meaningful, it's just that most big weddings I've attended or heard about simply weren't.

I guess that when Dewgirl thinks of an informal wedding, she has a different but similarly horrific thing in mind. If what she considers an informal wedding ressembles more a keg party than a meaningful ceremony, I understand her point of view about the "seriousness" of the event.

Dewgirl, if you are lurking, i think you are entitled to your opinion. i guess BG was hoping to perhaps get you to see that there are other ways of planning a wedding besides the ones you are used to where you live that might be acceptable and perhaps fun. imho, small weddings are a lot of fun b/c when you are invited to one, it means the couple really values your presence in their lives and wants you there for the occasion.

with that being said, however, i will admit the allegation that i had a "big formal materialistic consumption oriented wedding." the reception was at a museum, fer crissake, with a four-piece string quartet playing during the cocktail hour.

my question is wedding-related... i need some feedback, advice, words of wisdom -- please help!

background: my hubby's brother is getting married in december. on 12-21 saturday. it's in vermont. we live in minnesota. we both have jobs that make it really hard to take time off during the holidays. in fact, my hubby may lose his job for taking a few vacation days to go to this wedding. hubby is not close to his brother. and money is an issue for us.

problem: brother doesn't understand that hubby might lose his job over this (yes, we told him, it went right over his head). i just checked out fares, it's about $350 a person, plus we need a rental car since the closest airport is albany, NY, the wedding's at a resort-inn... we're looking at over $1150 for a weekend! really, it's too much and they are unwilling to help us with costs.

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Originally posted by mamichan:
i wonder if i should've started a new thread for this, but here goes!

my question is wedding-related... i need some feedback, advice, words of wisdom -- please help!

background: my hubby's brother is getting married in december. on 12-21 saturday. it's in vermont. we live in minnesota. we both have jobs that make it really hard to take time off during the holidays. in fact, my hubby may lose his job for taking a few vacation days to go to this wedding. hubby is not close to his brother. and money is an issue for us.

problem: brother doesn't understand that hubby might lose his job over this (yes, we told him, it went right over his head). i just checked out fares, it's about $350 a person, plus we need a rental car since the closest airport is albany, NY, the wedding's at a resort-inn... we're looking at over $1150 for a weekend! really, it's too much and they are unwilling to help us with costs.

what to do without offending brother-in-law?

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thanks guys

we've talked to mom (hubby's mom) about it -- she's pretty upset about the dates too. she even urged BIL to change the dates (before they were set in stone) knowing that it would be hard for us to get out there at that time -- and i guess she used us as a main reason in favor of switching the dates. apparently, that wasn't a big enough incentive for BIL. which irks me.

unfortunately, hubby feels like this decision will the the "make or break" point of his relationship w/ his brother.