If it can be done, that would be great--but I have never heard of a Catholic church in this hemisphere allowing a couple to get married in the Church (and by that I mean in the building as well as under the consecration of Rome) without making the couple agree to raise their children Catholic, without going through counselling with a priest, and without agreeing to follow the rules of Mother Church.

I also believe that the idea of a church wedding gets far too much emphasis. In the past, and in certain parts of the Christian world until almost the end of the 20th century, marriage was considered not religious but legal. Even if you were married by a priest instead of a magistrate, the marriage itself would take place on the steps of the church rather than inside the church--the idea being that while the church was lending its blessing and approval, this was more of a civic event and not suitable for the sanctified ground. The idea of marriage as a holy sacrament of the Roman Catholic Church (given the same religious weight as Communion, Annointing of the Sick and Dying, Confirmation, etc.) is fairly new (when taken in the 2000 year history of the faith, anyway).

One of my sisters converted to Greek Orthodox to marry a man who NEVER GOES TO CHURCH because his family insisted. My family didn't care--although Catholic we would have been happy with a justice of the peace. I won't get started on how lovely his family is, because I've done that rant on other posts. But what a waste. She's raising their son Greek Orthodox, and his own father doesn't even bother going to church. I'm particularly bitter because instead of having a family member (ME) as his Godfather, my nephew has some stranger my brother-in-law picked because he was the only Greek Orthodox guy in the office.

I think that the only people who should have any say in whether the ceremony is religious or not are the Bride and Groom. Besides: isn't it traditional that the BRIDE'S family plan things? In that case, if the boy's family is being uppity they can politely be told to go and scratch.

The questions I would ask are: does Bjerica's fiancee want a Catholic wedding, and why? Just to make his parents happy? What about making his wife happy? Sorry, but having seen that with my sister's husband I think it reeks of not being able to stand up for your own decisions--and that is not the way to begin a life together.

So Bjerica, what does D think about the whole thing? I think his saying that he doesn't care is grossly unfair to you because it places the onus of the decision squarely on your shoulders. I think he needs to step up and tell you one way or the other. What's the worst that could happen, you both disagree and have to come to a compromise? Oh, the horror!

Maybe D has a priest who he is comfortable enough with that he would do it for him. You could also try a local Catholic university is you have any for a more liberal preist (another route some friends have gone), but if D isn't that religious & he doesn't care about it either way then I say screw his family & do whatever you want, Bjerica!

I have no idea what D. wants. I know he wants to get married but that's the extent of it. He hasn't been to church in the whole time we've been together, and for quite a few years before that. I certainly will be bringing up that he's being unfair by leaving the decision entirely up to me. I don't want to go and get married in Cairns because that's what I want to do and come back and find his parents won't talk to him because he didn't get married in the Catholic Church. His mother works at the same firm as I do, and even though she is in another department we see each other quite a lot.

Although traditionally it's the bride's family that plans the wedding, it's not going to be my family. They had already told me that they didn't want to be paying for a wedding if we were already living together. To them it's just a formality if you're already living together. My parents are just politely staying out of the whole dealio.

Anyway, I feel like I'm totally bitching D. out here which is not what I'm trying to do. He is going to discuss it with his mother and see what they think. Basically he's going to put to them that we are going to get married in Cairns. If they desperately want a Catholic wedding they are going to have to foot some of the bill & organise it for me and I'll turn up on the day.

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Hi everyone!

I just got engaged 2 days ago (YAY!) and am beginning to fully realize the scope and breadth of the planning required for The Real Deal. I was hoping the good folk of the Digs community could give me some tips!

Everything's up in the air (as one would expect, of course), but this is for sure: We would like to have a small ceremony on a Caribbean island (perhaps St. Lucia, but not sure yet) on the beach and then do the honeymoon right after. A smallish (100 people?) reception of sorts at home would be in order for those who wouldn't attend the island thing. An open bar deal would be
great, but cost is a factor. Afternoon or evening? I'm thinking buffet, not sit down. To DJ or not to DJ? Is it tacky to have CDs playing?

Other details: I am Catholic and my fiance (!) is Jewish. I have a lot of family on my side and he doesn't. We're looking at 2003 and cost is a factor. We live in Toronto, Canada, so you can see how sun-deprived we are.

HELP!!
jenscully, the newly engaged.

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Have any of you either
a) been invited to a wedding reception, without being invited to the wedding ceremony (when both events were held on the same day?)

b) planned your own wedding this way?

specifically to bjerica - as a fellow oztraylian <waves> - i hear you when it comes to the Catholic wedding thang!

I think you will find that the church (not building, but church as entity) is pretty strict on the parish (read specific church-building) you have to be married in (a number of my cronies have been through the Catholic marriage process!). If you have your heart set on a particular church, which is not your local, you must apply to the bishop for approval (yes really!!!!) and, depending on the bishop, provide specific and what they consider, valid reasons for doing so.

From what I remember you'll probably have to attend a number of pre-marriage classes (oh the joy!) with other couples and probably a couple of individual meetings with the priest*. And yes - promise to raise your children as good Catholics - yada yada yada (although most Catholics within my acquaintance** tend to do the "yuppers, the church will be our second home, our children will be hail-marying all over the place" etc etc and invariably do not follow this up, nor do they have any intention of doing so - they just want to get married sans some of the hassles!)

Personally, I'd vote for your Cairns option every time, although I would say that his family may Make You Suffer^[tm] (see below) - because, as everyone will doubtless agree: "its your wedding NOT theirs".

Making You Suffer ^[tm]
I had a rather unconventional second wedding - it was a surprise - we didn't let any of the guests know we were to be married(we had been living together for a while and didn't need/want gifts etc). So we just invited everyone to a "somewhat late" housewarming - and sort of sprung the wedding on them after they arrived - which was loads of fun on our part. This went down very very well with our friends, but less well with some relatives on both sides(particularly those who were invited, but did not attend, "but you could have told ME you were getting married, I wouldn't have told anyone"..yeah, sure mum). The disgruntled relatives STILL hold a grudge SEVEN years later!

After all this time I have come to terms with their regular b1tching and snide remarks (well kind of). Many appear to believe it was some sort of well-planned scheme to personally slight them, or evidence that we hated them, when really we just did what we (as the couple that were being married) wanted. But hey, families....<grin>

But I wish all of you betrothed, the very best of luck with whatever method of ceremony you choose (and remeber that there will doubtless be one or two people that will not approve of what you do, irrespective of how hard you try).

Perdita

*although this may have changed since the last crony exchanged vows.

We actually had a large-ish crowd (200) at our wedding, but it didn't feel big and impersonal at all, which I was worried about. To be honest, I was so excited walking up the aisle I didn't even have time to process who was sitting in the benches, but afterwards, when we walked out and I looked around, it just made me feel so loved looking around and seeing all those happy, smiling faces.

Riah: Did you bring anyone along with you when you went dress-shopping? I found it really helpful to have my mom around when I was deciding. Mostly I guess I just went on instinct ... there were a few gowns I thought looked lovely, but only one where I put it on and just thought it was absolutely, perfectly me in style.

I mean, really. who really cares about which shade of ivory the roses should be. I certainly don't. But the wedding planner and the florist do, and have tried to wring my neck on several occassions to commit to something. I don't even know anything about flowers. criminy! I didn't care about bridesmaids dresses until I realized that some people have different ideas of what is appropriate and perhaps that would be completely INappropriate for the tone I was hoping to set at our wedding.

So maybe I care just a little bit. But not enough to actually cry about it. I just think there are people in our lives who really care about this stuff and are getting increasingly frustrated with our lack of interest. Who really cares if the invitations are addressed with people's full names? If I've called a person BOB his whole life, it would seem a little odd to jump out with the Bobert. But the calligrapher (and mother to sweets) was very preoccupied with this stuff and we ended almost fighting about it.

quote:

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Originally posted by emmalola:
...I just think there are people in our lives who really care about this stuff and are getting increasingly frustrated with our lack of interest.[/B]

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I couldn't have explained my situation any better... thanks!

arg. My boy and I said, right from the first night our engagement was official, that we're not going to be in any big rush, we're just going to relax and bask in the glow of our newly-engage-ed-ness.

Well. That lasted all of about, hmmm, SIX seconds, when everyone and their mother started asking, "SO! Have you set a date yet? Do you have a date yet? Do you have a date set? How about now? How about now? Gotta date yet? Do you have a date set? How about now? Now? Now? How about now? How about now? Now? Now? Now? Now?"

how annoying. I mean, I am absolutely thrilled with the idea of being married to my best friend, and I can't wait to set up our nice little house and make dinner together and snuggle up and watch TV together... all of that. I guess what I want to do is BE married, not GET married.

anyway, thanks, everyone, for all of your comments... with everything from extending your congratulations right from the start, to suggestions for taking care of my ring, to giving me input on this.

quote:

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Originally posted by snowdrop:
Sorry if this has been mentioned here before.....

Have any of you either
a) been invited to a wedding reception, without being invited to the wedding ceremony (when both events were held on the same day?)

b) planned your own wedding this way?

I dunno, I think the whole invite-everyone-you've-ever-known-in-your-whole-life-to-your-wedding deal isn't for me. I mean, I'd rather keep the actual ceremony very intimate with just me and him and our immediate families. then, later in the day, have a reception to celebrate.
what do you guys think about this?
I just think that it takes away from the whole special-ness of the day if you invite EVERYone, people who are more concerned about what you're serving for dinner at the reception rather than the lovey-doveyness of the whole thing.
thoughts, please.

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This is exactly how I did my wedding. We had a more intimate outdoor ceremony early in the day with close family and friends followed by a sit-down meal. Then we had an open-house style reception for everybody and their brother in the evening with a buffet and jazz band. We chose to do it that way because we wanted to keep costs down, but we didn't want to sacrifice certain wedding wishes--like the sit-down meal and the ceremony location. We got married in a gorgeous turn-of-the-century Tudor mansion that cost a mere $375 to rent for the whole day. The problem was the max capacity of 100 people. So we got around it by staging the events and calling our all-inclusive reception an open house, implying that people would come and go rather than staying for a block of time. It was a beautiful day and my husband and I were married surrounded by our favorite people. The event itself made all the snide comments leading up to and after the wedding completely insignificant. You just need to remember that those who really care will understand, and those that feel the need to be openly petty about the whole thing do so because of their own insecurities that have nothing to do with you or your wedding. If there is one thing I can promise you about your wedding--it's that there WILL be snide comments made--no matter how hard you try to accomodate everyone. So do what's most important. Make yourselves happy.

I've recently joined the newly-engaged club, but my boyfriend (fiance!) and I are waiting to share the happy news with family and friends. We've been together for such a short time, and we're worried that no one will understand. So, we're waiting a couple of months to tell everyone. In the meantime, we'll get our rings, and sort ourselves out (developing a 'business plan' sounds terribly nerdy and unromantic, but that's essentially what we're doing. We feel we need to prove to everyone that we actually have a handle on the step we've taken.).

So, we've been left with this confusing dilemma: we're both the happiest we've ever been, and super-excited, to boot. However, we can't share with anyone, and we're both beginning to feel guilty about being dishonest with our families. It feels terribly strange to have this amazing event cause any grief at all... I thought I would be able to avoid that until I actually got around to planning a wedding!

quote:

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Originally posted by megs:
[B]I've recently joined the newly-engaged club, but my boyfriend (fiance!) and I are waiting to share the happy news with family and friends. We've been together for such a short time, and we're worried that no one will understand. So, we're waiting a couple of months to tell everyone. In the meantime, we'll get our rings, and sort ourselves out (developing a 'business plan' sounds terribly nerdy and unromantic, but that's essentially what we're doing. We feel we need to prove to everyone that we actually have a handle on the step we've taken.).

So, we've been left with this confusing dilemma: we're both the happiest we've ever been, and super-excited, to boot. However, we can't share with anyone, and we're both beginning to feel guilty about being dishonest with our families. It feels terribly strange to have this amazing event cause any grief at all... I thought I would be able to avoid that until I actually got around to planning a wedding!
B]

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you can jet off to las vegas and elope. go to a tropical island and get married there, just the two of you and the justice of the peace. knock on the local JOP's door in the middle of the night. or do something simple. have a small garden ceremony in your parents backyard. or find a field you love. invite the people who mean the most to you. make a day of it. but dont stress out about it! theres no point!

We're having a weddingmoon.

quote:

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Originally posted by megs:
Was anyone upset that you'd kept it a secret for so long? Just wondering...

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We actually discussed the matter hypothetically in a round-about way with both families before we went public, so-to-speak, so no one was all that surprised or upset. And we made it public when my husband gave me an engagement ring--which, in his mind, made it official. He didn't want to tell anyone until I had a ring on my finger--he was terribly old-fashioned about a lot of things like that. At any rate, because I didn't have a ring before then, few people realized how long the plan had been in the works, so few questions were asked. People were much more concerned about which church we were getting married in and whether or not they would be invited to the ceremony. But, everybody always seems to have an opinion about weddings. Don't let it get you down--very few of those opinions are actually important.

Just wondering

I had my first fight with mom about some stupid detail (and I say first because I'm afraid many more will follow!) and now I'm just thinking is the one day worth the year of arguing?

I want(ed?) to have the day, with my family & friends.

But dad has volunteered to foot all/most of the bill and apparently that means mom gets to veto all my decisions/thoughts.

It's not that I'm ungrateful - I think it was wonderful of him to volunteer to pay for it. But now I'm wishing I could afford to cover "the day" myself just so that I could get an opinion/thought/word in edgewise...

quote:

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Originally posted by ellie:
Has anyone ever just thrown in the towel because wedding planning is such a pain and eloped?

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We decided to get married based on a misunderstanding during an argument one night. The next day, we went down to the county offices and did all the paperwork. There was a 3-day waiting period, which we actually made into 4 days because we thought having an anniversary on the 13th was cooler than the 12th. So 4 days later, I took the morning off work, and I swung by & picked up my husband during his lunch and we went to the JP and got married. Our only witness was a 15-year-old girl in handcuffs that was waiting for her trial and glaring at us the whole time. Then I took my new husband back to work and I went to work for the first time myself. Everyone thought I had gone to an interview because I was wearing a spiffy new blue suit. We didn't tell anyone until that night because we wanted to tell our parents first. My mom was the only one that expressed some disappointment at first, but now she loves the story. A lot of people think that the whole way that we decided plus the wedding (or lack of one) is kind of sad, but I say they are fools. They obviously don't know my husband & I well to think this. This was perfect for us. I love how anti-romantic it was, and for me it makes it even more romantic... because it was truly just our thing that we did with each other. Our reasons were many, but among the top ones were that we'd seen several friends get married and have really bad experiences with family members and the wedding party & we just didn't want to deal with it. His mother is extremely high-maintenance and pushy; neither of us wanted to deal with that. Plus his parents are not amicably divorced and there are a lot of weird politics. Also, we both have guilt issues with spending large amounts of money, I really hate being the center of attention, and keeping it a secret made it more special for us.

Last week my mother went with me to help pick my wedding dress. She announced (after looking at the price tag) that they would *maybe* be able to contribute $200 to the entire costs of the wedding. We are anticipating the entire cost of the wedding to be about $2,500. My choice in wedding dress costs less that a lot of prom dresses I've seen, and I think $300 is a fair price for a wedding dress considering some of the prices I've seen on other dresses.
While my mother is incredibly infuriating, I am grateful that I can talk to Jer's folks and able to share the concerns of the wedding. This experience was the furst reason for me to think of eloping. I never quite understood what about planning a wedding could reduce a bride-to-be to tears. Now I know. I am so frustrated with my immediate family, I would almost consider just eloping.

quote:

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Originally posted by Riah:
It's time to have a wedding mania vent!
I never quite understood what about planning a wedding could reduce a bride-to-be to tears. Now I know.

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(((Riah))) That sucks. I'm sorry. I'm kind of afraid my parents are going to do stuff like that too.

Can I add a vent?

-start vent- It's amazing how I can give my mom plenty of things to "make the decisions about" - like flowers, or the bridesmaid's dress - stuff I don't particularly care about. But then she'll say "no, I don't want to pick things out". Then as soon as I make a decision, she's got to ask me to justify it. "Can I ask you why you decided only to have 1 attendant? You do know that bridesmaids pay for their own stuff, right?" @@ Here comes 10 minute discussion to justify my decision.
I understand her curiosity.. but it's so exhausting to explain every little decision, since there are so many, associated with wedding planning. -end vent-

So it looks like we're going forward with planning a wedding (not eloping) and I'm terrified. That's the update. Eeek.

quote:

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Originally posted by Riah:
[B]Both of our families are the "Sit around the kitchen, drink coffee and visit" type of people.
B]

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That's what my family is like, and I quite like it. But my fiance's family loves to dance and drink and party all night long. My father has offered to pay for my wedding and there won't be much drinking (because the church parish hall doesn't allow it) and there won't be any dancing, both because we can't afford it (the dj, etc.) and because we (my fiance & I) don't like to dance.
With that said, how should I deal with the *comments* I keep getting from his family that our reception is going to be boring, and we should change it to their specifications? What especially infuriates me is that his family hasn't offered to pay for *anything*, yet they continue to bash our wedding which my father really has no business offering to pay for in his current financial state (but he's going to try).
While I'm at it, two more things that bother me:
1) His mother told me that I should just accept the fact that for the next year I will be subjected to his family's teasing/complaining etc because I did not survey them before I planned my wedding and
2) His family seems to believe that the purpose of wedding days is to entertain your family and friends, especially with alcohol

-end, wedding vent, sorry-

anyone have words of wisdom?

ellie

This is a very difficult time for me & (insert fiance's name here) because of making a major life transition and all of the stress that goes with planning a wedding and trying to please everyone. When you say things like that, it only makes me feel alienated and frustrated. I would like to have a good relationship with all of you and this is making me feel like we are off to a bad start. If you get bored at the reception, just remember that it will only be for a few hours, and I'm sure you have sat through boring events before. But since my father is paying for this wedding despite his financial situation, we are doing this the way we (you & your fiance) feel is best.

Plus, you've got to talk to your fiance and have his support. It's more comfortable for him to say things like that to his parents, but you also can't let them railroad you. Just try to be calm and rational sounding too, and play it off like you really want to be close with them and that this is something they can do to help create that relationship.